Jon I would like to see (as I heard else where) that the big 3 be involved in an "X prize" project here's 3 small piles of cash for startup and here's the mountain of cash that goes to the winner. Part of these problem is these companies are saddled with a cost/infrastructure they hinders their ability to move more quickly perhaps a structured bankruptcy is what they need to set their houses in order. I initially was opposed to this idea because of the damage it would create down stream - but I think the damaging blow has already been made - it's just below the waterline. re the oil companies - you might appreciate this post What goes Up...sometimes takes a different path on the way Down Miro May you live in interesting times - Confucius